Andrea
Registered: Jan 24, 2008
Posts: 184
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| April 27, 2008 at 08:16 AM |
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| #16 |
Your thinking is right on the button, Lola. We have to come to peace with the underlying causes of our distress - to try to deal with these later and focus on my children's needs never worked for me. When my children were under six, I found that I rarely had time to deal with my own issues if I put their needs first. My issues always got put on the back-burner as the days blurred by - I never really had a technique then which could help me with my issues anyway. They always seemed so huge, but by doing a quick TW inquiry into individual thoughts when they occur is something which I find is so empowering and workable. |
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aljonesz
Registered: Feb 27, 2008
Posts: 56
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| April 27, 2008 at 03:12 PM |
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| #17 |
We were supposed to start discussing the rest of the chapter today but I have had a week of putting out fires. I will try to get something posted by tomorrow. Meanwhile any last thoughts on SALVE?
There was so much good stuff posted I think I might have to print it out and reread it frequently. In all my spare time!!
Sorry didn't keep didn't get this done on time.
thanks,
Amy
mama to Liz 3.5 and Meg 10 months |
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aljonesz
Registered: Feb 27, 2008
Posts: 56
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| April 30, 2008 at 03:57 PM |
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| #18 |
Okay, I'm tired of walking around thinking I should be getting this done. I will have it done this weekend. Hope I am not driving anyone crazy with the slow pace. Maybe more realistic is read one week, discuss one week, then read again for one week.
Amy
mama to Liz 3.5 and Meg 10 months |
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g_annwn
Registered: Feb 29, 2008
Posts: 213
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| April 30, 2008 at 09:46 PM |
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| #19 |
No worries Amy! Don't stress yourself over it, I don't think anyone's in a rush here. We all understand how difficult it is with little ones.
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aljonesz
Registered: Feb 27, 2008
Posts: 56
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| #20 |
At last......
REWIND:
I agree with what Lola has already mentioned. It seems doing The Work to decrease the amount of rewinds is the most sensible.
VALIDATING UNSPOKEN COMMUNICATION:
I didn't get a lot out of this part, I know my daughter is a master at not communicating. Her favorite trick is not to answer or respond when I speak to her. I just hope as I get better at meeting her needs i will understand her better?
COMMUNICATING ABOUT LOSSES:
Does anyone understand what is meant when Naomi says (she/he)"identify with the pain and make her life story out of it"? I'm not sure I get this concept. Right now Liz is going through the loss of her binkies. We are trying to validate her whenever she says I want them, I say I know. And when she says I miss them we say you are very sad. It seems to be "working", it sort of diffuses the emotion when we just mirror back to her her emotions.
EXPRESSING REGRETS
1. I like how she put it about showing you know exactly what occurred for them. As an adult I often find sorry very inadequate.
2. I also resonated with not saying "I'm sorry you feel that way". My mother uses that one on me and it makes my blood boil. It does come across as very uncaring.
I wrote out the sequence of six steps for undoing hurt. Sometimes it helps me to break it down like that so I remember. I think I might post it somewhere.
3. Does anyone have any examples about a knowing if a child is feeling guilt? Sometimes I wonder if Liz feels guilty about hitting or pushing her sister but I don't know how to find out if she does without putting the suggestion into her head, I mean I don't want to plant the idea of guilt when she may not be feeling it.
WHEN COMMUNICATION TOOLS BACKFIRE
I felt like this whole section was aimed at me because of the sentence "if you don't know how your words drive your child away..". I assume that is what's happening when Liz clams up and won't respond verbally. I am going to try to really focus on letting go of outcomes and just focus on CONNECTING....
1. When Naomi says if you must disapprove of an action say how it made you feel. My question is won't that make them feel responsible for my feelings? My husband often tells Liz that he gets sad when she hurts herself or won't change her pullup and gets a sore bottom. So the other day she didn't want to tell him she had run into a door and split her lip because she didn't want to make him sad.
UNDERSTANDING YOUR CHILDS BEHAVIOR
This mostly spoke to me about how to stop myself from stopping them from getting their needs met. Of course I still find myself in a quandry about what Liz's need is when she hurts her sister, how to meet that and still be there for Meg. I've tried asking her why she does it but she only focuses on what Meg was doing, messing with her toys, or knocking something over. I'm not sure which category of the 5 needs that falls under.
Can't wait to here from all of you.............
Amy
mama to Liz 3.5 and Meg 10 months |
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louisef
Registered: May 10, 2008
Posts: 1
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| #21 |
Amy I am here its louise with the twins lol just reading all the posts sure i will catch up. Thanks
for the chat before.
Louise
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aljonesz
Registered: Feb 27, 2008
Posts: 56
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| #22 |
Louise,
Welcome, sorry the book study seems to have ground to a halt but there are lots of other good posts on other topics. Anyway we can have more chats about it next time we see each other.....
Amy
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g_annwn
Registered: Feb 29, 2008
Posts: 213
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| #23 |
Yah, sorry about my lack of contributions Amy. I've been preoccupied with other reading and haven't had a chance to continue with ROCRO. Remember in the first chapter when Naomi says that if you practice the 'S' of SALVE (which is essentially The Work), then you don't need anything else; all the rest will follow? That's really what I've been finding. The more I do TW on my issues with the kids, the more those issues go away and it all really becomes quite funny. Our lives have turned around almost completely. With TW, I find my own answers to our daily conundrums (actually, they mostly just disappear), instead of prescribed ones. It makes it more authentic - for us as a family. I do what works and feels right for us and the kids, while inquiring into the veracity of my thoughts to keep it real, instead of trying to follow the rules and advice in the books. Life has gotten really simple and remarkably beautiful. I've always loved my life, now my life just soars. To touch the joy of almost every moment is just divine. I still have lots of Work to do, things come up daily. But the more I do, the clearer I become and the kinder life is, the more amazing my children are, and the more love I feel inside me for absolutely everyone.
If you're keeping up with the reading Amy, keep posting (if you feel so inclined)! You're likely to spark some conversation. There are a lot of people on this forum that may not be posting, but are following the conversations.
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goobermama
Registered: Feb 16, 2008
Posts: 93
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| #24 |
Hey all-
Some thoughts on this section.
In reply to Amy: "1. When Naomi says if you must disapprove of an action say how it made you feel. My question is won't that make them feel responsible for my feelings?"
I think that Naomi suggests that we say not how THEIR actions "made" us feel, but how our OWN actions made us feel, e.g. "I felt sad after I yelled at you today; I want always be loving and kind to you."
It's been interesting to me how much Naomi (and Katie) shift away from the traditional counseling advice of making "I feel" statements-- "when you do XXX, I feel...", which was intended to get people identifying emotions (a positive thing) but may have contributed to some of the victim mentality so prevalent in our culture, and may lead situations like Amy described, where kids or others don't tell us something important b/c they are afraid it will "cause" a negative emotion.
Some key quotes for me in this section were:
"Our evolutionary progress toward more peaceful, connected, and self-realized human beings depends on letting go of the attachment to the way it used to be and of THE NEED TO CONTROL." (xv)
and
'If we want our future as humanity to look different than how it looks now, we need to allow our children to create it out of who they are and not out of how we want them to be...No change can occur by repeating the past and obeying the old fear-based beliefs in our head."
These quotes are important to me because for so long I have been an activist, and have been involved in many causes to "make the world better." And, until recently, I have been frustrated that I don't have time for those causes because of the time it takes to parent. Now I am understanding how fundamental parenting is for the future of the earth and society. I'm not holding on to specific outcomes/achievements in my kids' lives, but I trust that this approach to parenting will help ME and possibly also the kids become more authentically compassionate, generous, and helpful. Perhaps the one best thing I can do for the earth and others is to work on my own control issues.
"Feelings get in the way of the ability to act powerfully" (10)--certainly have experienced this in my own life and am glad to have some tools here to help me and my boys express feelings and move on.
"Anger and violent reactions tend to cover up other painful feelings...yet anger does not give us the release we need because it focuses on blame" (15)--this is also very helpful in the "Raising Ourselves" aspect of all this. I am still trying to acknowledge and embrace the angry feelings, as a messenger of a deep pain I can explore and then become free from. But I still struggle not to react with that anger.
'Don't say the first words that come to your mind" (16)--and I would add, don't DO the first thing that comes to your mind. Just stop and breathe for a second and CHOOSE the response. I know that if I can make this the habit, so much will change for the better. I like the SSSALVE suggested in a post below!
"Developing kindness starts with BEING GENTLE AND PATIENT WITH YOURSELF" (22). Yes. I know that I am a habitual negater, so it is taking time, but I am not helped by any sort of self-loathing or sense of failure because I have not become the "perfectly authentic parent," as if there is such a thing.
"Always be the master of yourself only" (32). Amen to that!
"People are insulted when they sense another person has control over their feelings and behaviors." So true. Remembering times when I have felt this way, as a child and an adult, has helped me be more empathetic to the boys.
'The first common error is insulting a child by stating (instead of asking about) his feelings" (34). Oops.
"As you develop your communication skills, avoid the tendency to judge the communication abilities of others" (35). Oops again! "Words of judgement SEPARATE us from those we love. Teach no one but yourself." This is so hard, but she is right on the money here. Also, "When pointing fingers and waving rights and wrongs in the face of the accused, we only lose him; he cannot hear us. When being vulnerable with your personal experience, your child, spouse, friend will not feel threatened or alienated, but connected and moved by your communication" (36). I have found this to be true so many times with adults; why not kids?
Someone asked me how I do "do-overs" and reparations. It's a mix of apologizing for my unkindness/disrespect and allowing something I had just said no to, and engaging with him in it. Sometimes it is a little special time together, some quality attention. I've never done a very dramatic "rewind" as described in the book--actually leaving the room and coming back in--but i can see where that would be helpful. One time, I felt mad and yelled when my son got into his "I want to kill you" screaming mode. Once we had both calmed down a bit (he ran to his room), I went in there and started playing with him and talked to him about how I want to kill the "mean mama" in me and keep the loving mama. (I had done a turnaround in my head of "I want to kill my thoughts") then we started playing "kill mean mama thoughts" and "play with fun mama" while I did this dramatic Jekyll and Hyde thing. It was a beautiful and cathartic experience for us. I am now reading Playful Parenting and getting some more do-over (and preventative) ideas from it.
That's all for now. I am glad there is this book study, and I am reading and thinking--just sometimes is a while before I have a chunk of time to do the posting part.
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lita23
Registered: Feb 04, 2008
Posts: 70
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| #25 |
Are you guys ready to move on to chapter two?
Angie
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aljonesz
Registered: Feb 27, 2008
Posts: 56
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| #26 |
I'm good to move ahead. Does someone want to facilitate or kick start it off?
Amy |
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lita23
Registered: Feb 04, 2008
Posts: 70
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| #27 |
I don't mind getting the discussion of chapter two going, but it may take me a few days. If anyone else wants to share something about chapter two before I post anything, feel free to do so.
Angie
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aljonesz
Registered: Feb 27, 2008
Posts: 56
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| #28 |
Thanks, Angie! I have started to read Chapter 2 but not ready to post much. When you do start posting just move over to Chapter 2 section.
Amy
Mama to Liz 3.5 and Meg 11 months |
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