eggnogbubble
Registered: Sept 17, 2009
Posts: 15
|
|
|
| #1 |
Hi again,
good advice from here last time so I thought I'd post with another question. Related to my last one, really, offering to help seems to work (by and large they dont want my help), but punching is still an issue. My question: how to resolve situations like the following in a non-coercive and non-controlling way:
1. one boy, H(6), keeps punching ME. He does it for fun (more or less) but has not stopped despite me repeatedly emphasising that i dont want him to do that (the reason I give: because it hurts). I'd like to validate but there's no dialogue, he punches me and if i try to talk to him he runs off (knowing that i am going to ask him to stop - apparently he doesnt want to. However I dont feel this is something i need to put up with, also if we are going to have a school without punching (more or less) then I feel the need to be consistent.
2. A quieter boy, R, told me Y had punched him. This is what i am encouraging (as a substitute for punching back) but still leaves me wondering how to help, since me asking Y not to punch is not very well recieved - Y really needs to feel in control, and my asking him not to punch takes his control away.
3. Finally, H (from 1. above) basically told me to F*** Off today when i went to (smiling) say goodbye. I know i probably shouldnt take that personally, but it REALLY isnt what i needed at the end of a rather trying day. Any advice?
thanks for any replies, starting a sudbury school with a bunch of aggressive 6 year old boys is a little fraught so I welcome any help i can get
egg
|
| | foehnjye
Registered: Oct 16, 2008
Posts: 13
|
|
|
| #2 |
Hi. I don't know much about Sudbury Schools so it's hard to know what sort of environment you are dealing with on a day to day basis. However, some thoughts I have...
1. Boy H wants to punch you. You've tried repeatedly to tell him that it hurts. That's not working. When he punches, can you say, "You want to punch! What strength you have, shall we find some way to put your strength to use?? Let's go do x." X may be building something, punching a punching bag, throwing something big in a safe manner, climbing up something, etc. Can you get a punching bag set up? Can you build something with these kids? Can they use their big muscles in a way that makes them feel strong and big?
2. Not really sure about this one. Maybe the above suggestion will help Y to feel more control and bigger. If they can all work on something together to feel big and powerful individually, maybe there will be less individuals taking out their emotions on the others.
3. Words are just words. Words cannot hurt you. If you choose to be affected by a word at the beginning or the end of a day, that's your choice. If you indicate, based on your reaction, that this word bothers you, a child might be more inclined to say it to you again in the future if he wants to make an impact. Maybe the kid was experimenting to see what your reaction would be. Maybe something happened to him during the day and he didn't appreciate your smiling goodbye. Maybe he would have preferred to not have to say goodbye. Maybe he thought he was being clever. Regardless, if you have no reaction, it's probably less likely it will become a habit of his. My advice, just keep smiling.
You say you have a bunch of "aggressive" 6-year old boys, but I imagine they are better defined as 6-year old boys. Why put the aggressive in there? Just leave it as boys, and don't pen yourself into a label. Boys are Boys, and boys can be aggressive, loving, quirky, kind, strong, loud, quiet, generous, rough, complicated, and a wealth of other things. Look for the qualities you want to see, but don't confine yourself to the ones that are challenging.
|
| | eggnogbubble
Registered: Sept 17, 2009
Posts: 15
|
|
|
| #3 |
thanks for the reply, very helpful.
1. Hmm, a punchbag might help, I'll give it some thought, yes we can build stuff, we have a treehouse already. I'm toying with the idea of just LETTING him punch me for ten minutes occasionally, see if that gets it out of his system
2. I might also try just validating R's feelings without really doing anything to correct the wrong - tho' I will of course step in when it's going on, especially if it seems onesided.
3. Yes, agreed, it just really wasnt what i needed. My reaction at the time was to pretend it didnt happen, and finish saying goodbye to the others kids and then leave. He did think he was being clever, but also spiteful - he's angry with me because I won't let him punch him (every time he does it I say it hurts and ask/tell (say, rather forceful and pointed asking). I just kept smiling, but it had been a fraught day and I was somewhat at the end of my tether, so yes I was hurt, and very angry - i fumed all the way home. I know that's not constructive, and hypothetically my 'choice', but I confess I find it rather hard to 'shrug off' angry (or choose not to be angry) once it gets going. Not one of my better points - I'm working on it, but, well, it's an uphill struggle and I dont seem to be doing that well.
Boys - I'd like to see less aggression (or rather, at least less punching), but they are just being boys, I agree. I see them being many other things too (sometimes they are rather sweet!) but yelling at each other and punching seems to be taking up a lot of the day. Like I say, I'm trying to discourage punching, but since they dont listen to me (or perhaps, since they dont have any other real outlet for their considerable anger - and its hard to think of one) it isnt really going well. Maybe I should just let them do whatever they need to, and consistently console (validate) whoever got punched last.....until he goes and punches the other, and then I validate that one for a while, until.....you can see how this can go on for quite a while.
thanks hugely for your reply, I'm feeling a bit lonely here, I'm in japan in a japanese-language sudbury (I'm pretty fluent) , but all the books I have read are in english, so it's hard to find anyone to talk to who can really offer any informed perspective.
egg
|
| | eggnogbubble
Registered: Sept 17, 2009
Posts: 15
|
|
|
| #4 |
key question:
Am I trying to control H by asking him not to punch me? And is this wrong?
Because if punching is his current method of self-expression, controlling the expression is not going to remove the motive, and is therefore counterproductive (even in the unlikely event that I both succeed in stopping the behaviour whilst simultaneously avoiding creating distrust thru being controlling,)
But the alternative seems to be to let him punch me (for the time being at least). Bear in mind asking him why he is punching me (or "are you angry?" etc) just makes him yell at me, run away, and do it again. Oh, and he is enjoying this by the way, on some level this is fun to him (but not to me).
Am I being unreasonable to expect children not to punch me (or each other, for that matter)? It seems reasonable enough, but whilst it does hurt a bit I can hardly claim I need to defend myself. Should I be trying to rid myself of the 'old record' that says I have the right not to be hit (by anyone)?
Notably, the japanese parental response is just to put up with it, in the belief that they grow out of it. I find it hard to believe that is a good way to deal with it, however, mainly because it creates a situation where (at least for the time being) the kids think it is acceptable to punch people - which (in my current situation at least) seems to then go on all day (as detailed above, sorry to repeat myself)
or am i overthinking this?
thanks again for any thoughts.
egg
|
| | Joanne
Registered: Sept 06, 2008
Posts: 19
|
|
|
| #5 |
I don't believe letting H punch you is the right choice, I feel that says it is okay to hurt others. If an adult came and did the same thing would you let it happen? We are not free to do these things as adults why as children. I agree with a punching bag or something to get his frustrations out.
As for asking him why he is punching you, well I believe he yells or runs away because he is feeling like you are in his business and that is uncomfortable. Like if someone were to say to you, "why did you yell at those kids for?" "what were you thinking?" (sorry if this isn't a great example, but I basically mean that we ask things like "why are you punching your sister?" and expect that will clear the air) It puts blame and shame into the picture or just puts a spotlight on his feelings.
I am not sure why the Japanese would feel that, basically ignoring it, would be alright and that children would outgrow this. I would think that it would just continue, maybe not with punching later on but something else. Not really sure what to say.
Well I am not sure if this is helpful, but one more thing I can say is how would you like someone to talk to you, or if this was a good friend of yours how would you treat the situation.
I have issues with my dd who may not always punch, but if things are not going her way or she gets hurt she shuts down when I ask her and may hit me (or run off upset) because she feels like I am invading her space I guess. But also when she has been hurt if I ignore it she is upset, this may be the prepuberty age more so but I do find it can be hard to know what to do, one time to the next time.
I try to remember that they are more than just kids.
|
| | eggnogbubble
Registered: Sept 17, 2009
Posts: 15
|
|
|
| #6 |
thanks, your agreement gives me more faith that I am doing the right thing. I am thinking about getting a sofa cushion and holding it so he can punch me as much as he likes, it'll be fun for him, and he can always ask to do it again, the fact that I need the cushion (and won't tolerate being punched without it) will show why punching is bad: because it hurts. But I will avoid getting in his space with questions etc.
thanks, very helpful
|
| | Joanne
Registered: Sept 06, 2008
Posts: 19
|
|
|
| #7 |
Yeah, I think that the cushion is a great idea. Awesome! |
| | foehnjye
Registered: Oct 16, 2008
Posts: 13
|
|
|
| #8 |
I don't have much time to reply at the moment, but as far as the cushion goes, you could also buy a martial arts designed cushion, to make it even more fun (I'm a martial artist, can you tell?  These are usually called hand targets or focus targets, and you slip your arms through them and hold them so they can be hit. They come in many sizes and prices:
http://www.awma.com/index.cfm/action/productdetail/product_id/5560.htm
I, too, agree that you should not allow yourself to be the punching bag as that will most likely send the wrong message.
Good luck!
|
| | eggnogbubble
Registered: Sept 17, 2009
Posts: 15
|
|
|
| #9 |
thanks for the idea, I've done martial arts myself so i know the ones you mean. I'll try with the cushion, and if its a big success maybe some specialized punching apparatus wouldnt go amiss.
The boy who punches me is away at the moment, when he comes back I'm planning on trying the cushion thing out the first chance I get, I'll be sure to post an update here to let you know how it goes.
thanks again for the agreement, it's good to know other people also think this is the right approach (like I say, the mainstream japanese approach doesnt seem like the right one to me)
egg
|
| |
|
